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#474 – DHH: Future of Programming, AI, Ruby on Rails, Productivity & Parenting

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#474 – DHH: Future of Programming, AI, Ruby on Rails, Productivity & Parenting

Lex Fridman Podcast

Jul 12
Lex Fridman Podcast

Lex Fridman Podcast

Jul 12
OverviewShownoteHighlightsTranscriptChaptersPins

Shownote

David Heinemeier Hansson (aka DHH) is a legendary programmer, creator of Ruby on Rails, co-owner & CTO of 37signals that created Basecamp, HEY, & ONCE, and is a NYT-best-selling author (with Jason Fried) of 4 books: REWORK, REMOTE, Getting Real, and It Doesn't Have To Be Crazy At Work. He is also a race car driver, including a class-winning performance at the 24 hour Le Mans race. Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep474-sc See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc. Transcript: https://lexfridman.com/dhh-david-heinemeier-hansson-transcript CONTACT LEX: Feedback - give feedback to Lex: https://lexfridman.com/survey AMA - submit questions, videos or call-in: https://lexfridman.com/ama Hiring - join our team: https://lexfridman.com/hiring Other - other ways to get in touch: https://lexfridman.com/contact EPISODE LINKS: DHH's X: https://x.com/dhh DHH's Website: https://dhh.dk/ Ruby on Rails: https://rubyonrails.org/ 37signals: https://37signals.com/ DHH's books: Rework: https://amzn.to/44rSKob Remote: https://amzn.to/44GFJ91 It Doesn't Have to Be Crazy at Work: https://amzn.to/46bzuwx Getting Real: https://amzn.to/4kzoMDg SPONSORS: To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts: UPLIFT Desk: Standing desks and office ergonomics. Go to https://upliftdesk.com/lex Lindy: No-code AI agent builder. Go to https://go.lindy.ai/lex LMNT: Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix. Go to https://drinkLMNT.com/lex Shopify: Sell stuff online. Go to https://shopify.com/lex NetSuite: Business management software. Go to http://netsuite.com/lex OUTLINE: (00:00) - Introduction (00:58) - Sponsors, Comments, and Reflections (08:48) - Programming - early days (26:13) - JavaScript (36:32) - Google Chrome and DOJ (44:19) - Ruby programming language (51:30) - Beautiful code (1:09:31) - Metaprogramming (1:12:52) - Dynamic typing (1:20:10) - Scaling (1:33:03) - Future of programming (1:50:34) - Future of AI (1:56:29) - Vibe coding (2:05:01) - Rails manifesto: Principles of a great programming language (2:29:27) - Why managers are useless (2:38:48) - Small teams (2:44:55) - Jeff Bezos (3:00:13) - Why meetings are toxic (3:07:58) - Case against retirement (3:15:15) - Hard work (3:20:53) - Why we left the cloud (3:24:04) - AWS (3:33:22) - Owning your own servers (3:39:35) - Elon Musk (3:49:17) - Apple (4:01:03) - Tim Sweeney (4:12:37) - Fatherhood (4:38:19) - Racing (5:05:23) - Cars (5:10:41) - Programming setup (5:25:51) - Programming language for beginners (5:39:09) - Open source (5:48:01) - WordPress drama (5:59:18) - Money and happiness (6:08:11) - Hope

Highlights

In this wide-ranging conversation, David Heinemeier Hansson (DHH) reflects on his journey from early programming experiments to becoming a pioneering force in software development. Known for creating Ruby on Rails and co-founding Basecamp, DHH shares insights into the philosophy behind his work, the importance of simplicity, and how he challenges conventional wisdom in both tech and life.
19:38
HTML in 9th grade reignited passion for programming after years away from it.
35:30
Chrome is praised as a great gift to web developers and the open web.
36:32
Cookie banners are a failed piece of legislation that made the internet ugly.
50:36
Built a Ruby proof of concept for Basecamp over a single weekend
1:00:25
Ruby allows adding a 'days' method to numbers for human-readable code.
1:09:36
Ruby on Rails creates domain-specific languages through metaprogramming to simplify database relationships
1:12:57
Dynamic typing is the essence of Ruby, enabling beautiful, flexible code.
1:32:23
AI has the potential to significantly boost individual programmer productivity.
1:41:40
AI makes programming more exciting and is like a positive, smart buddy.
1:53:32
Ruby on Rails will likely still be used in 50 years.
2:02:51
Vibe coding easily gets lost in complexity, similar to junior developers.
2:18:36
Active Record is the crown jewel of Rails, blending database and object orientation seamlessly
2:32:11
Great innovation often comes from small teams without managers, like id Software.
2:41:39
Basecamp was built by a team of four in 400 hours.
2:47:59
Bezos invested despite doubts from his team due to high price and low revenue
3:06:26
There can be multiple winners in life beyond the VC unicorn model.
3:13:39
Ignorance when starting something new is a blessing as the adventure and responsibility are the payoffs.
3:15:15
Society should balance celebrating peak excellence and a more balanced life.
3:24:04
AWS operates at high margins and is complex to use.
3:38:49
Building a cluster with 100,000 GPUs in record time instead of renting from competitors
3:45:21
Apple has lost its driving force and is now failing since Steve Jobs' departure
3:58:17
They achieved a truce where they didn't pay 30%, weren't kicked out, but had to create a dummy account.
4:01:03
Apple changed app store rules after costly legal battle with Epic.
4:16:11
Fatherhood rates beyond a hundredfold compared to previous life experiences
5:01:23
Max Verstappen exemplifies the passion and skill required in modern Formula One racing.
5:05:24
The speaker will never sell their Pagani Zonda as it's considered a masterpiece.
5:22:09
TypeScript offers no payoff and adds unnecessary complexity
5:25:51
Ruby with Rails and JavaScript is ideal for web development.
5:39:09
Open-source developers are not vendors; there's no transactional relationship.
5:51:41
Open-source licenses must be respected to maintain ecosystem trust
6:02:18
Having less money can lead to a better state of being.
6:08:12
Humans have a problem-solving nature and should avoid premature pessimism

Chapters

Introduction
00:00
Sponsors, Comments, and Reflections
00:58
Programming - early days
08:48
JavaScript
26:13
Google Chrome and DOJ
36:32
Ruby programming language
44:19
Beautiful code
51:30
Metaprogramming
1:09:31
Dynamic typing
1:12:52
Scaling
1:20:10
Future of programming
1:33:03
Future of AI
1:50:34
Vibe coding
1:56:29
Rails manifesto: Principles of a great programming language
2:05:01
Why managers are useless
2:29:27
Small teams
2:38:48
Jeff Bezos
2:44:55
Why meetings are toxic
3:00:13
Case against retirement
3:07:58
Hard work
3:15:15
Why we left the cloud
3:20:53
AWS
3:24:04
Owning your own servers
3:33:22
Elon Musk
3:39:35
Apple
3:49:17
Tim Sweeney
4:01:03
Fatherhood
4:12:37
Racing
4:38:19
Cars
5:05:23
Programming setup
5:10:41
Programming language for beginners
5:25:51
Open source
5:39:09
WordPress drama
5:48:01
Money and happiness
5:59:18
Hope
6:08:11

Transcript

Lex Fridman: The following is a conversation with David Heinemeier Hansson, also known as DHH. He is a legend in the programming and tech world, brilliant and insightful, sometimes controversial, and always fun to talk to. He's the creator of Ruby on Rails...