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From managing people to managing AI: The leadership skills everyone needs now | Julie Zhuo (Facebook VP, Sundial CEO, The Making of a Manager author)

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From managing people to managing AI: The leadership skills everyone needs now | Julie Zhuo (Facebook VP, Sundial CEO, The Making of a Manager author)

Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth

Sep 21
Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth

Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth

Sep 21
OverviewShownoteHighlightsTranscriptChaptersPins

Shownote

Julie Zhuo is the former VP and Head of Design at Facebook (now Meta), author of the bestselling book The Making of a Manager, and co-founder of Sundial, an AI-powered data analysis company. Also, my first-ever podcast guest over 3 years ago! In our conve...

Highlights

In this insightful conversation, Julie Zhuo returns to reflect on the transformative impact of AI on leadership and management. As roles evolve and technology reshapes workflows, she offers a forward-thinking perspective on how both individuals and organizations can adapt—not by resisting change, but by embracing it with intention and empathy.
07:51
The book helped normalize feelings for managers who thought they were alone in their struggles
08:41
Management fundamentals like outcome, purpose, and process apply equally to agentic systems.
12:15
Being unclear about success leads to sub-optimal work with AI agents
19:17
Engineers can handle full product cycles with AI support and specialist review
23:54
ChatGPT helps engineers understand the 'why' and 'when' behind algorithms
29:33
The head of ChatGPT identified common use cases by analyzing TikTok comments and viral content.
34:37
Great designers can't A/B test their way to a great product.
37:21
Managers should be like a willow tree—sturdy yet flexible in navigating change.
40:22
Change is not something to fear but to embrace as an exciting opportunity
45:03
Weaknesses are often the downside of strengths; growth lies in understanding this duality
51:46
Unhappiness often comes from misalignment between personal goals and required actions.
1:02:57
Getting people to opt in for feedback solves 60% of the problem.
1:05:33
Firing someone can be a win-win if it supports the employee's long-term success
1:09:32
Lack of belief in strategy can lead to project failure
1:12:12
Break down a directive into assumptions and test them with small experiments.
1:18:22
AI makes it easy to create a personalized gift that feels handcrafted and unique
1:20:11
It's a skill to see the richness in situations.
1:30:43
True freedom is choosing challenging things over easy shortcuts.

Chapters

Welcome back, Julie!
00:00
The success of The Making of a Manager
05:18
Why AI will make everyone a manager
08:41
The future of management roles
11:38
Empowering teams with AI
14:00
Specific roles being accelerated by AI
21:30
Data analysis in AI companies
26:53
The role of data in design
32:02
The evolving role of managers in the AI era
37:21
Embracing change and uncertainty
40:22
Timeless lessons for managers
42:14
Balancing strengths and weaknesses
49:03
Building a feedback culture
57:49
Creating win-win situations
1:05:33
Being aware of your own energy and conviction
1:09:27
Navigating disagreements with higher-ups
1:12:12
AI corner
1:15:57
Contrarian corner
1:20:08
Lightning round and final thoughts
1:23:14

Transcript

Lenny Rachitsky: We're seeing this kind of flattening of orgs. Everyone's becoming an IC again. Julie Zhuo: It used to be, okay, I don't have the skills to do 10 different jobs, But now, with AI, allows me to do many of those jobs myself. We need to disso...