The discussion centers on Iran's nuclear program, with Dubowitz emphasizing the threat posed by Iran’s 60% uranium enrichment and its potential to develop a deliverable nuclear weapon within months. He supports maximum pressure tactics and credible military threats to deter Iran. Horton counters that sabotage and assassinations by Israel and the U.S. have driven Iran’s enrichment, not an active weapons program, and warns that regime change efforts could trigger regional chaos. Both critique Trump’s foreign policy—Dubowitz praises his pressure campaign while lamenting missed diplomatic opportunities, and Horton highlights how withdrawal from the JCPOA escalated tensions. They debate the validity of intelligence alleging past weaponization, with Horton questioning the authenticity of key evidence. The conversation explores best- and worst-case futures, including nuclear proliferation cascades and the collapse of non-proliferation norms. Ultimately, they agree on the need for diplomacy but diverge sharply on the role of force, with broader reflections on U.S. interventionism, the military-industrial complex, and the imperative to avoid World War III.