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How to measure AI developer productivity in 2025 | Nicole Forsgren

Overview

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How to measure AI developer productivity in 2025 | Nicole Forsgren

Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth

Oct 19
Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth

Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth

Oct 19
OverviewShownoteHighlightsTranscriptChaptersPins

Shownote

Nicole Forsgren created the most widely used frameworks for measuring developer productivity—DORA and SPACE. She wrote the foundational book Accelerate and is about to release her newest book, Frictionless, a practical guide for helping teams move faster i...

Highlights

In this insightful conversation, Nicole Forsgren unpacks the evolving landscape of developer productivity in the AI era, moving beyond outdated metrics to explore how teams can truly accelerate through better developer experience. She emphasizes that sustainable speed comes not from measuring output, but from fostering conditions where engineers can thrive cognitively and emotionally.
07:40
Productivity gains through high-friction methods risk long-term developer burnout.
08:34
Senior engineers use clear goals and fast feedback loops to maintain flow with AI
14:48
Trust is a key missing dimension in evaluating AI-assisted development
21:19
Rapid prototyping and A/B testing that used to take days can now be done in hours thanks to improved DevEx.
22:26
Start by asking developers about their work and pain points to identify friction.
26:49
Flaky tests and broken builds are key indicators of productivity bottlenecks.
33:32
Regular users' output can double with AI assistance
41:54
Developer experience is about making developers happier and more productive by removing friction and reducing cognitive load
43:41
Quick wins at small scale can build momentum for developer experience improvements
45:20
AI gains follow a J-curve: quick wins, slowdown, then compounded benefits after infrastructure build-out
46:15
Cleaning test and build suites saves developer time and reduces cloud costs.
54:01
Start by talking to developers to understand their challenges before implementing metrics.
55:16
Satisfaction surveys are more useful than happiness surveys for work-related feedback
57:59
Claude Code can perform various tasks on the computer, not just coding.
59:08
Treat developer experience improvements as product initiatives with MVPs, experiments, and customer feedback loops.
1:00:40
ChatGPT can generate an image of your house based on past conversations.
1:02:33
Accept decisions made with available information at the time as part of personal growth

Chapters

Introduction to Nicole Forsgren
00:00
The concept of developer experience (DevEx)
05:09
Flow state and cognitive load in the age of AI
08:33
Challenges in measuring productivity with AI
12:02
The importance of developer experience for business value
21:19
Common issues and solutions in developer experience
22:20
Signs your eng team is moving too slow
26:49
How AI is improving productivity
29:52
Real examples of productivity improvements
33:32
Introducing her new book, Frictionless
36:35
How to get started building a DevEx team
43:40
The impact of forming developer experience teams
45:15
 How to measure the impact of DevEx teams
46:15
Measuring the impact of AI tools on productivity
48:53
Survey design for developer experience
55:16
Popular AI tools for developers
57:59
Bringing a product mindset to DevEx improvements
59:08
AI corner
1:00:40
Lightning round and final thoughts
1:02:33

Transcript

Lenny Rachitsky: A lot of companies are trying to measure productivity for their teams. Nicole Forsgren: Most productivity metrics are a lie. If the goal is more lines of code, I can prompt something to write the longest piece of code ever. It's just too ...